
Konstantin Zatulin (1958- ), Director of the Institute of the CIS and RF Gosduma deputy
This interview with Konstantin Zatulin, the director of the Institute of the CIS and RF Gosduma deputy, was conducted when the Holy Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate held an extraordinary session in Moscow that fixed the date of 27-29 January for the Local Council that shall elect a new patriarch. Therefore, the main issue, amongst others raised in the conversation, the date of the election of a new patriarch, is now resolved, however, it has not lost its relevance. To find out what challenges may face the Church in Russia church during this interregnum between patriarchs, what qualities any future patriarch must possess, and what initial problems shall face him, our Interfax-Religion correspondent, Aleksei Sosedov, asked the following questions of Mr Zatulin.
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Aleksei Sosedov
Today, in your opinion, is it important to accelerate the process of electing a new Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, or, is it better not to rush into this?

From the funeral of Patriarch Aleksei in Moscow (all other photographs are of the same event)
Konstantin Zatulin
It goes without saying that most Orthodox believers (both laity and clergy) are still grieving over the loss of His Holiness Patriarch Aleksei II. I am sure that everyone respects the dignity of his office and, of course, they also render respect and honour to this distinguished archpastor based on his personal abilities.
Nevertheless, life goes on, and the Church, now extended greatly by the efforts of its late First Hierarch, and having regained many of the positions in society that it lost in the Revolution, cannot remain without a chief pastor. It must be borne in mind that the Orthodox Church is a powerful instrument if it is wielded by a solid and decent leader. But, if some attempt to use the Church for the purposes of division, then, the Church suffers and, in the broadest sense, society suffers, for the believers, who are citizens as well, suffer. We can see a clear example of this in the Ukraine.
Given the fact that the Moscow Patriarchate is not limited to the borders of the Russian Federation, as its canonical territory extends over the Ukraine, Moldova, and other parts of the former Soviet Union, and, today, it is now reunited with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, we cannot exclude attempts to influence the election of the new patriarch by foreign governments. Not everyone, of course, would meddle in such an affair, but, I am quite confident that the leadership of the Ukraine shall attempt to do so, playing on well-known questions (the establishment of a “Local Church” independent from Moscow: Interfax). President Yushchenko was not shy in his attempts to force a meeting and agreement between the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Moscow during the recent celebrations of the 1,020th anniversary of the Baptism of Russia in Kiev! It is clear to everyone that one reason for the deterioration of the health of the patriarch and his sudden death was his most difficult mission to the Ukraine this summer.
I can well imagine that the absence of the First Hierarch of the MP can be used for blackmail purposes, especially concerning the question of the “separation” of the Orthodox Churches in Russia and the Ukraine. Some shall attempt to exert pressure on the Holy Synod, indeed, on the entire MP, to force it to agree to concessions in favour of the “autocephaly” of the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine, to destroy the unity of the historical canonical territory of the Patriarchate of Moscow and all Russia. It seems to me that we cannot disregard this particular danger. In the final analysis, the sooner we elect a new patriarch, the better it shall be for Church unity, for all the faithful, and the clergy. From the start, we know that there are many candidates for the post of Patriarch, and, in my opinion, delaying the date of the Patriarchal election does not give us any benefit. It just complicates the situation and allows time for intrigue and the manoeuvres of those factions that are concerned only for their own ambitions and political agendas, not for the state of the Church.
Aleksei Sosedov
In particular, what qualities do you think a new First Hierarch of the MP should possess?

Konstantin Zatulin
If the Church in Russia today was actually weak and impotent, then, the question of who would be its chief archpastor would be somewhat irrelevant. It would not be an important and critical matter. But, the 18 years of the patriarchate of Aleksei II raised the bar high for all those who would, in future, inherit the patriarchal throne. Certainly, the man we elect to it must be worthy. First of all, he must be known, respected, and loved. He cannot be an unknown figure, pushed suddenly from the depths of the church hierarchy to the top, without being familiar in the broadest sense, not just to the clergy, but, to the laity, indeed, to the entire Orthodox world. Any new patriarch must be able to prove, through his previous service, his organisational ability, his impartiality, his authority, his ability to make fine distinctions, and he should be a skilful diplomat. This last stipulation is particularly important, as the MP is not some local sect huddling in a closeted Penza cave. It is a worldwide church; undoubtedly, this mandates means that any candidate must possess experience. It does not matter how much respect we give a polite and pleasant cleric, if he is not known by anyone except ourselves. Priority should be given to recognised pastors. It is the most important factor.
For centuries, since the Church became an influential actor in society, the election of a new patriarch has encountered different challenges from the political and social milieu. This is a reality to be reckoned with. I would remind you that, at one time, the fear of competition between the secular and spiritual authorities led to the abolition of the patriarchate for some 200 years, during which time it was replaced by the Holy Governing Synod, a governmental department. This trend was furthered, even more, by the Soviet régime, which was, in principle, atheistic in nature. But, even they, at certain times, were forced to acknowledge that they could not carry on without the Church. Specifically, this happened in the most difficult times, during the war.
If we look at the current situation of Russia, our most crying need is to do everything to ensure that the election of a new patriarch is free and that the one selected would be the most worthy and most capable candidate. Those who advocate a pseudo-Byzantine situation, in which a loose and weak cleric, one who is easily to manipulated by them, should be totally excluded in our current relations between the state and the Church. The Church should be respected in its right to choose an archpastor whom it deems the most worthy, capable, and influential, and the secular authority should not fear this, but, rather, give respect to the Church’s decision. I am well aware that this discussion takes place at different levels, and, along with the view that I now espouse, some express the view that a manageable candidate rather than a capable one is better. This view is, in my opinion, extremely dangerous and extremely dated. The problems within the Church and the problems in the larger society are acutely critical and demand a solution. Therefore, we cannot accept any outside interference in the election of our patriarch. The Church must take its rightful place in society and choose the most worthy and capable archpastor possible.
Aleksei Sosedov
Firstly, what basic problems face the new patriarch?

Konstantin Zatulin
The task facing him shall have both internal and external aspects. The internal tasks are very serious and, at this stage, are complicated due to the fact that we have a difficult period facing the state, which is at the epicentre of financial and economic disruptions and crises, and I do not exclude the serious social problems associated with a declining economic output, which may even stop the work of some enterprises. At this moment, the Church should be fully open equally to the needs of both the workers and the employers. It must refer to Christian values in its preaching, mitigate social conflicts, exhort, heal, and appeal to the conscience and responsibility of the people so that these circumstances would not lead to threats to peace and order in the country, both large and small conflicts. The role of the Church in this cannot be overstated. As oil cast on the waves smoothes away disturbances, the Church can help the state deal quickly and effectively with the difficulties already facing us, and, perhaps, with those that shall face us in future. But, this is something that must be handled on a case-by-case basis.
Over the long haul, I think that there are serious problems connected with the growing influence of the Church in society, with its growing influence. This influence should be used rationally and wisely, not to the detriment of the Church. Neither the Church nor the state should interfere in the affairs of the other. It seems to me that there are serious problems at this time due to the rapid advancement of the Church and its breadth of growth, mainly, these are problems of religious identity and what is called “inner growth”, the problem of “what’s under the hood”. Now, the Church is officially-recognised, however, today, not all members of the clergy have a correct altitude when it comes to communicating with the people, all too many prefer material benefits and grub for them. The temptations are too much for all too many. Here, I think, the role of the new patriarch is most important, because he should call such sorts to account, so as to not allow what happened to the Church on the eve of the October Revolution. What made that event possible was the separation of the Church from the people; it was foreign to the people’s aspirations, devotion, thought, and so on.
With regard to the external challenges facing the church, I think that I have named them already. Today, the church is subjected to attacks from all sorts of competing sects, and, also, from those who see the MP as an especially-dangerous adversary because it continues to bind together a spiritual space that it wishes to divide. Do recall the famous conclusion of some Western political scientists that, following the demise of the Soviet Union, the Church is the institution that must be destroyed in order for some to achieve their geopolitical goals in the post-Soviet space. Today, no confrontation between Russia and the Ukraine can lead to a military conflict like that between the Serbs and the Croatians because, on both sides of the border, both here and there, a common Orthodox Church continues its life and activities. Over time, this situation may change, if the plans of those who wish to rip the Church in the Ukraine away from the MP and propagandise Ukrainian believers against their Russian brothers come to fruition. As of the present time, such people exist; they are now in power in the Ukraine. They are not sitting on their hands, they are constantly engaged in their plots, and, without a doubt, they have much support and sympathy from many sources in the West in this endeavour.
The new patriarch will need to not only protect the canonical territory of the MP, but, also, to make progress in the matters launched by Patriarch Aleksei and Metropolitan Laurus concerning the reunification of the Church in the Motherland with the Church Abroad. There is a need for the MP to take an active role in the world. I think that the MP is no less capable than the Catholics of a broad dialogue with all people, both Orthodox and those outside the Church. Its role in the dialogue between the Islamic and Christian civilisations is extraordinarily crucial. One must understand that Orthodoxy was never involved in the Crusades, and, from that point of view, its word has always been respected in Muslim circles, which can help to ameliorate some of the problems of the contemporary world. Its non-acceptance of schism and its doing its best to heal the heresies afoot in the world, along with its open and frank preaching of the truth, should increase, even more, the credibility of the MP upon the world stage.
Aleksei Sosedov
In your opinion, do you think that we should actively pursue dialogue with the Catholics?

Konstantin Zatulin
Generally, I think that the lack of dialogue is worse than politicking, for the absence of dialogue is actually the threshold or the premonition of war. It goes without saying that we need a dialogue with the Catholics; I have noticed that there is great respect for the Orthodox Church in the traditional Catholic countries, at least, that is what I see from my own personal contacts. Where the people embrace traditional values, it is easier for such folks to understand those who profess the values of Orthodoxy. We also know that, in other languages, the Orthodox Church is called “Orthodox” because it is the Church that is based on the most ancient tradition. As a result, Catholics and Orthodox are eminently capable of engaging in dialogue. Naturally, this should not be done at the cost of losing our basis in truth, as was done at the time of the Unia, which was later condemned by the Orthodox Church and rejected by the faithful. Today, we must not ignore the desire of certain circles in the West, including some Catholics, to proselytise in traditional Orthodox lands. Finally, let’s look at Uniatism. It is nothing but a glaring example of an attempt, using a Trojan Horse, to proselytise on the canonical territory of the Orthodox Church! I think that, in addition to resistance to these attempts, we should conduct a dialogue in order to deter these temptations and not prejudge them. What unites Catholics and Orthodox is greater than what divides them. Any attempts to advance at the expense of the other and to poach on the other’s flock must be stopped. This is one of the main objectives of the dialogue between the Catholics and the Orthodox Church, because only such a mutually-respectful attitude can open up a space for discussion of the more serious problems facing Christianity as such.
Aleksei Sosedov
I would like to ask a question of concerning external affairs. We know that many religious leaders prayed over the coffin of His Holiness Patriarch Aleksei, including Ilya II, the Patriarch and Catholicos of all Georgia. What does his visit signify, in your opinion?

Konstantin Zatulin
I think that the Catholicos is a wise man, it is not without reason that the political factions in Georgia regularly turn to him for mediation. The fact that he came to Moscow was a correct move on his part, we must appreciate it as such, and, indeed, it was so assessed. Therefore, I think President Dmitri Medvedev specifically set aside time to talk with the Catholicos. Today, Russian-Georgian relations are not the best. The accusations made against us by the political élite of Georgia are disproportionate and unfair. They would have us act in the role of Judas Iscariot in our relations with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. We shall not succumb to this blackmail. We have many important values we hold in common, primarily those associated with our shared Christian faith, both in the past and in the present. This could be a starting point for the improvement of relations between our two countries. In this sense, we cannot overstate the role the Church. But, do understand that this cannot occur at the cost of betraying the fundamental positions of principle on the Russian side, on our assessment of the current régime in Georgia. Indeed, the Georgians themselves have concluded that the continuance in office of Mikhail Saakashvili, the culprit in all of this mess, is to the detriment of Georgia. But, how and when this issue will be resolved, this is an affair of the Georgian people, and, from that point of view, the position of the Georgian Church is very important. We do not encourage anyone nor do we push our point of view, but, a call to morality from the mouth of a hierarch that they trust implicitly would be very important.
11 December 2008
Interfax-Religion
http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=interview&div=205 (in Russian)
Editor’s Note:

Note well Mr Zatulin’s words. “Priority should be given to recognised pastors. It is the most important factor”. This means that those being seriously considered for the patriarchal throne are experienced archpastors of major sees. Indeed, most of what I have seen in the Russian-language press in the last few years has stressed the need for a pastoral patriarch to follow Aleksei Rediger. This, in itself, seems to militate against the election of Kirill Gundyaev, who is, in essence, a church bureaucrat, not a diocesan archpastor. If there is any hierarch who is opposed by many factions in the church, it is Metropolitan Kirill. The fact that he was a protégé of the infamous Nikodim Rotov (who was accused of being a Roman cardinal in pectore) does not brighten his chances. In short, he has too many enemies to be a unifying figure, which is what the Church is looking for at present.
Who can fill the shoes of Patriarchs Ss Germogen and Tikhon? To my mind, there is only one candidate worthy of the name. That is Archbishop Vikenty Morar of Yekaterinburg. Yekaterinburg is the third-most-important diocesan see in all of Russia. Yekaterinburg (Sverdlovsk in Soviet times) is the Russian Pittsburgh; it is one of the major industrial areas in the country. The industrialisation of the Urals started in Tsarist times, picked up speed in the Five-Year Plans, and plants from the western portion of the country were evacuated here during the Second Great Patriotic War. This is a populous and economically-vital region of Russia; it is major by any standard used.

Archbishop Vikenty Morar of Yekaterinburg (1953- ), a pious and competent archpastor of true patriarchal timber
Vikenty Morar became the archpastor of the Diocese of Yekaterinburg in 1999, after his predecessor, Archbishop Nikon, was removed by the Holy Synod due to great scandals in the diocese, both personal and institutional. Vladyki Vikenty had his work cut out for him. He turned the diocese around, gave it new hope, applied wise and prudent pastoral vision, and he proved a unifying figure of great moral force. Archbishop Vikenty uses all modern means of communication to spread the faith, he operates diocesan radio and TV facilities (in addition to Orthodox newspapers and magazines), he is an active encourager of the Orthodox internet, and he blesses priests to form rock-bands to perform throughout the diocese.
Unlike Kirill Gundyaev, who is greatly rumoured (I think properly) to be soft on Catholics, the Unia, and the EP, Vladyki Vikenty teaches the traditional faith, straight-up, no mixer, and no ice. He has a great devotion to the Royal Martyrs. This is a litmus test. Those who venerate the Royal Martyrs are straight in their faith, in the main (there are some right-wing loonies as well, but, these are exceptions to the rule). Those who do not, such as the pseudo-intellectual crowd at SVS in Crestwood, are found to be Renovationists and ecumaniacs.
Therefore, Vladyki Vikenty is the archpastor of a major see, he has substantial experience as a ruler and can point to many achievements, both material and spiritual, and he is certainly mature enough, being 55 years of age. He is very well-known in the Russian-language press, so, he is no unknown. He has had much contact with Presidents Putin and Medvedev, as Yekaterinburg is a major pilgrimage destination (the Royal Martyrs were murdered here in 1918) as well as being a major commercial, industrial, communications, and military centre.
I certainly did not hide my preference, did I? I think the above recitation of facts backs up my opinion (for such it is, for what it’s worth). I shall remind all and sundry that no one expected that Jonas Paffhausen would be elected the Metropolitan of the OCA. You may see much concerning Kirill Gundyaev in the weeks ahead. I would say, “Remember Pittsburgh”. Oh, Yekaterinburg is the “Russian Pittsburgh”… hmm…