5 May 2015. Bart’s Crew Antsy Over Sobor Preparations

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Well, we had HH saying that there were difficulties and intrigues at the preparation for the notional Istanbul all-Orthodox Sobor. Read this… OUCH! Bart’s bunch has their knicks in a knot. Let’s not be coy… Bart’s crew of losers doesn’t accept the OCA or the Czechs as autocephalous Local Churches. I did some asking around… not only did I get this link (I can’t catch everything, of course)… many think that HH sending Onufry Berezovsky to the OCA Sobor in July is a “Message to the Phanar”. No one can sue me for stating what’s out there. I don’t know what went on in Switzerland… but HH is on record as saying it was difficult and this post just nailed it down. Actually, the Phanar was stupid in doing this… it just reinforced in everyone’s mind the notion that a hellova smell ensued in them thar hills. Look at this:

The Committee’s deliberations took place in a spirit of fraternal love and constructive dialogue.

In Diplomatese, it means that all parties had a good food fight that didn’t degenerate into a Texas Steel Cage Death Match (that’s what happens when diplomats say that they’ve spoken “frankly”). In short, the Phanar showed its WEAKNESS. A strong party would’ve ignored it and the internet brouhaha would’ve dissipated in a week or so. My take is that the agenda isn’t nailed down… there’s more than a little disagreement on that… on top of the fact that neither the MP or EP have agreed to seat all the other’s delegations. This looks more n’ more like a “no go”… the Centre will insist on the OCA and the Czechs being there. Who’ll blink first? Well… if the fascist junta in the Ukraine goes down the shitter… you can see where I’m going. Bart will find that being a Friend of Langley only goes so far…

BMD

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Patriarch Kirill Regrets that Intrigue Accompanies Preparations for the all-Orthodox Sobor

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On Thursday, at a ceremony bestowing an honorary degree upon him at the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Federation, Patriarch Kirill Gundyaev of Moscow and all the Russias said that the all-Orthodox Sobor set for Istanbul in 2016 will still be held, but its preparation hasn’t been easy. He said, “If everything goes according to plan, the Sobor will take place in 2016”. He pointed up that this historic forum would address topics related to the relation between Church and society, to address the concerns of believers on the issues of the day, “As always, around important historical events, there’s some intrigue, some hidden agendas, with some trying to influence the outcome, including some political forces. This faces all of us, especially, with the crisis in the Ukraine”. He also touched upon the Middle East, commenting that a large-scale exodus of Christians from the region would violate local stability, creating a breeding ground for extremism, “In Syria, [terrorists] destroyed 400 Christian churches just because they didn’t like the fact that the country historically has harboured a Christian community”.

30 April 2015

Interfax-Religion

http://interfax-religion.ru/?act=news&div=58698

V R Legoida: “It’s not Correct nor Acceptable to Call It an Ecumenical Council”

Mount Athos, The Holy Mountain: The Orthodox Vatican (from the Slavonic Epic, nr 17)

Alfons Maria Mucha

1926

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Vladimir Legoida, head of the MP Synodal Information Department (SINFO), expanded on what came about at the meeting of the First Hierarchs and representatives of the Local Churches held last week at the HQ of the Patriarchate of Constantinople in the Phanar in Istanbul. The main purpose of the meeting was to prepare for an all-Orthodox Sobor. Legoida related that the Church reached consensus on convening a Sobor in spring 2016, saying, “The MP delegation, headed by His Holiness Patriarch Kirill Gundayev, played a crucial role in this. The meeting decided to increase preparations for holding a Sobor. This autumn, a special commission composed of one bishop and one advisor from each autocephalous Local Church will begin work. By the spring of next year, the commission will pave the way for the opening of an all-Orthodox Pre-Sobor Conference. It’ll agree upon the final issues to be addressed and be the final step towards an all-Orthodox Sobor”.

“One should note that the First Hierarchs and representatives of the Local Churches unequivocally supported the MP’s position that we should reach all decisions at any future all-Orthodox Sobor by consensus only. This means that if a decision lacks the support of even one Local Church, the Sobor won’t accept it; all decisions must have unanimity to be valid. This is according to ancient Church tradition, this characterises and distinguishes catholicity from recent parliamentary democracy, where decision-making is through the principle of majority. What’s more, this Sobor is important as a living example of how to restore inter-Orthodox communication, long complicated by various factors”. Answering a question whether the upcoming Sobor is an Ecumenical Council, Legoida explained, “Some call the upcoming Sobor a Holy and Great Council; some call it an all-Orthodox Sobor. It’s not correct nor acceptable to call it an Ecumenical Council. The last Ecumenical Council was in Nicaea in 787, and there’s been no more Ecumenical Councils since then. After the schism of 1054, the Latins continued to hold councils, which they called ‘ecumenical’. However, the Church doesn’t recognise them. We expect that the future all-Orthodox Sobor in 2016 would include the First Hierarchs and representatives of all recognised autocephalous Orthodox Local Churches“.

12 March 2014

Patriarchia.ru

MP official website

http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/3603789.html

Editor’s Note:

I left “Sobor” in the original Russian for a reason. Firstly, all Russian Orthodox in the diaspora know what a “sobor” is… it’s a meeting held to thrash out matters of Church governance, not doctrinal issues. That’s true of this meeting, as well. There’s MUCH less to it than what EP and papist sources are trumpeting in various fora and media. GIVE HEED TO THE SECTIONS IN BOLDFACE. Read them with care… there be plenty of fresh and steaming cowpats in that there field. When one adds to that Balashov’s recent comment on the number of autocephalous Churches, one can realise that this Sobor is far from a done deal.

One last thing, Antioch and Czechia/Slovakia weren’t at the late meeting… y’know, we need CONSENSUS for ANYTHING to fly… can you catch my drift?

BMD

Head of Church of Greece Puts Off Visit to Russia

Bart sucking up to Biden and listening to His Master’s Voice… “Do beware the Danaeans, even when they bear gifts”… I mean the USA, NOT “the Greeks”

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Sources told Kathimerini that Patriarch Kirill Gundyaev of Moscow and all the Russias, who visited Athens last May, cancelled plans to attend an event at the Greek Embassy in Moscow after the head of the Church of Greece, Archbishop Ieronymos Liapis of Athens, put off a visit to the Russian capital. Officially, the Church of Greece informed the MP that Ieronymos wouldn’t be able to visit due to scheduling problems, but the feeling in Moscow is that he cancelled his trip because of friction between the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Istanbul and the MP over the Ukrainian situation. In the past, the two Churches sparred over religious issues in the Ukraine.

e-Kathimerini

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_08/03/2014_538003

Editor’s Note:

Kathimerini is a partner of the New York Times, so, its content is often suspect neoliberal bullshit (remember, the NYT has the likes of Serge Schmemann working for it… you know what flocks together, don’t you?). Here, however, it’s straight reportage… which reveals that the recent meeting in Istanbul went very badly, indeed. Bart is a shameless lickspittle of the Americans, as all Ecumenical Patriarchs since Athenagoras Spyrou have been (he’s also papist-trained, giving him two strikes against him, no?). Do you remember that image of Bart kissing Biden’s ass in public? That was disgusting… but that’s what the EP has degenerated into.

There’s not much on the late meeting in Istanbul on patriarchia.ru (nor is it prominent and highlighted, it’s just ordinary “latest news”… that means that all the hot air out of the Phanar about an imposing and all-powerful “all-Orthodox Council” in two years is sheer hokum and bogus. Don’t forget, the MP and Antioch pulled out of the EP-inspired “Episcopal Assemblies” in the diaspora. Besides which, the EP centre in Chambésy lies shuttered and empty (its funding from the Greek government is gone… Langley didn’t give the EP enough to keep it open), there’s no serious work being done to prepare a council, which requires detailed planning and, most of all, MONEY (money that the EP doesn’t have, by the way… its dependent on Langley hand-outs and shaking down rich diaspora Greeks). Until you SEE planning and SEE serious money on the table, discount all Phanar lies. Indeed, it’d be inane to have a “Synod” in two years (it wouldn’t be an Ecumenical Council, for no patriarch can call such, only an “Orthodox Emperor” can do so)… it’d have the potential to split the Church in two. All sane people oppose such a notional meeting.

It’s best not to comment on the noise from the EP and crank papist sources such as AsiaNews. As the old Russian saying has it, “The dogs bark as the caravan passes… the caravan goes on its way”. In short, the EP isn’t going to steal the Ukraine (that’s what this is all about, kids). Things haven’t changed… “Beware the Danaeans (Americans), even when they bear gifts”… that hasn’t changed, either.

BMD